Peter Whish-Wilson
Devonport Eisteddfod
"This is my very first competition at Devonport Eisteddfod. I’m on top obviously, playing the tuba. On the bottom is Greg Carr who went on to be a professional trumpet player with the AOBO (Australian Opera and Ballet Orchestra).”
Ballarat with Mr Bentley
“This was our very first trip to Ballarat when my dad came along as well……that was the very first of many “Ballarats”, great fun. We’re all ready to get our TAA flight to Melbourne and then Dad got a taxi from Melbourne to Ballarat. (GM, ‘Taxi!’). Yeah he was a bit over the top in that way!”
Whish the champion
“This was the day I won the junior and senior ‘any other instrument apart from cornet’ and the junior and senior champion of champions of Tasmania. (GM, ‘You’ve got plenty of medals there’). Yep, almost ripped my lapels off!”
In the News
“There was heaps of press coverage after my win, that’s just one of the articles. Brass banding was much bigger in those days, (GM, ‘Yeah tell me about it’).”
Circular Head Brass Band
“This is the Circular Head Brass Band, of which I was a proud member, pictured prior to it’s first overseas tour from Smithton to King Island, I think the plane trip took fifteen minutes. Any way that’s my dad at the very top of the photo.”
Malvern Brass
“The Malvern Municipal Brass Band, the conductor there is a guy called Wilf Dyason, who we mentioned earlier. He was the one who got me over to Melbourne. I used to board with this bloke called Ernie Holmes who is standing behind the bloke sitting behind the bass drum. He was born in 1889 in Casterton on the Victorian/ South Australian border and moved to Melbourne to play with Malvern Band. He was there during its glory days with Philpott conducting and the likes of Harry Shugg and Massa Johnson, when brass banding was at its absolute peak. He used to practise for 3 or 4 hours every day……and he was just a really lovely man and I boarded with him for about a year, until I started at the college and I moved in with Gary Bishop actually, who is sadly no longer with us (GM, ‘You had a very good relationship with Gary’s dad Reg Bishop’), they were like my second family. I had moved over all by myself, Gary had moved down from Sydney………I was fifteen he would have been seventeen, (GM, ‘It’s very young isn’t it?) well not at the time I just wanted to play with all these great musicians, I was really driven….also a lot of it’s luck, just being in the right place at the right time (GM, ‘A lot of work’) oh yeah but that was fun and meeting the right people. The Bishops were amazing, they took me in like their own, so Gary, Peter, Wendy and Robyn are like my siblings…..and Joy she’s still going, she was the first professional female trombone player in Australia. I was talking to her the other day, she’s going great and Reg was beautiful, he went through New Guinea and the Kokoda trail being a stretcher bearer and playing in the army band……great people!”
On the March with the Elizabeth Band in Burnie 1981
Peter with his grandma after the Burnie Street March
The Archibald Prize portrait
“A friend of mine called Andrew Baines came along to a concert and said that I had the most interesting face in the orchestra, so he wanted to do a portrait of me for the Archibald prize. It’s based on the Flying Dutchman, you can see me sitting in the surf there and in the background in the corner you can see the ghost ship from the opera where the captain sells his soul to the devil and sails forever without ever capsizing until he meets the woman he loves. Her name is Senta.”
At work in the Adelaide Symphony Orchestra
Contemporary Whish taken during Octubafest in Adelaide 2020
Adelaide tuba quartet Steve Lawler, Ian Denbigh, Bob Hower and Peter Whish-Wilson perform on Hey Hey it's Saturday's Red Faces in August 1989
www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-4oMdFjkYM
Peter did the first recording released comprising totally of tuba and orchestra solos world wide ever - available here
"This is my very first competition at Devonport Eisteddfod. I’m on top obviously, playing the tuba. On the bottom is Greg Carr who went on to be a professional trumpet player with the AOBO (Australian Opera and Ballet Orchestra).”
Ballarat with Mr Bentley
“This was our very first trip to Ballarat when my dad came along as well……that was the very first of many “Ballarats”, great fun. We’re all ready to get our TAA flight to Melbourne and then Dad got a taxi from Melbourne to Ballarat. (GM, ‘Taxi!’). Yeah he was a bit over the top in that way!”
Whish the champion
“This was the day I won the junior and senior ‘any other instrument apart from cornet’ and the junior and senior champion of champions of Tasmania. (GM, ‘You’ve got plenty of medals there’). Yep, almost ripped my lapels off!”
In the News
“There was heaps of press coverage after my win, that’s just one of the articles. Brass banding was much bigger in those days, (GM, ‘Yeah tell me about it’).”
Circular Head Brass Band
“This is the Circular Head Brass Band, of which I was a proud member, pictured prior to it’s first overseas tour from Smithton to King Island, I think the plane trip took fifteen minutes. Any way that’s my dad at the very top of the photo.”
Malvern Brass
“The Malvern Municipal Brass Band, the conductor there is a guy called Wilf Dyason, who we mentioned earlier. He was the one who got me over to Melbourne. I used to board with this bloke called Ernie Holmes who is standing behind the bloke sitting behind the bass drum. He was born in 1889 in Casterton on the Victorian/ South Australian border and moved to Melbourne to play with Malvern Band. He was there during its glory days with Philpott conducting and the likes of Harry Shugg and Massa Johnson, when brass banding was at its absolute peak. He used to practise for 3 or 4 hours every day……and he was just a really lovely man and I boarded with him for about a year, until I started at the college and I moved in with Gary Bishop actually, who is sadly no longer with us (GM, ‘You had a very good relationship with Gary’s dad Reg Bishop’), they were like my second family. I had moved over all by myself, Gary had moved down from Sydney………I was fifteen he would have been seventeen, (GM, ‘It’s very young isn’t it?) well not at the time I just wanted to play with all these great musicians, I was really driven….also a lot of it’s luck, just being in the right place at the right time (GM, ‘A lot of work’) oh yeah but that was fun and meeting the right people. The Bishops were amazing, they took me in like their own, so Gary, Peter, Wendy and Robyn are like my siblings…..and Joy she’s still going, she was the first professional female trombone player in Australia. I was talking to her the other day, she’s going great and Reg was beautiful, he went through New Guinea and the Kokoda trail being a stretcher bearer and playing in the army band……great people!”
On the March with the Elizabeth Band in Burnie 1981
Peter with his grandma after the Burnie Street March
The Archibald Prize portrait
“A friend of mine called Andrew Baines came along to a concert and said that I had the most interesting face in the orchestra, so he wanted to do a portrait of me for the Archibald prize. It’s based on the Flying Dutchman, you can see me sitting in the surf there and in the background in the corner you can see the ghost ship from the opera where the captain sells his soul to the devil and sails forever without ever capsizing until he meets the woman he loves. Her name is Senta.”
At work in the Adelaide Symphony Orchestra
Contemporary Whish taken during Octubafest in Adelaide 2020
Adelaide tuba quartet Steve Lawler, Ian Denbigh, Bob Hower and Peter Whish-Wilson perform on Hey Hey it's Saturday's Red Faces in August 1989
www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-4oMdFjkYM
Peter did the first recording released comprising totally of tuba and orchestra solos world wide ever - available here
Introduction:
“Work hard, play hard.” Of all the people I know I can think of no better example of this maxim than Peter Whish-Wilson.
There is a debate amongst Australia’s sporting historians as to whether Don Bradman or Walter Lindrum was Australia’s best sportsman. There is also a separate debate about whether billiards is really a sport. Walter Lindrum was so good at billiards that they had to change the rules, the “nursery cannon” was outlawed. The most notable characteristic that Walter possessed was the ability to practise beyond the point where most people go numb and are unable to practise beneficially.
In my opinion Peter Whish-Wilson possesses this same ability both at work and play.
His monumental work ethic has been rewarded with stellar success playing the brass band’s second lowest voice. His “play sessions”, especially those with his chief playmate Bob Hower, are legendary. Whish keeps going when the rest of us fall by the wayside. He is full of life, generous and hearty. The words love and beautiful are found frequently in his conversations and ring true in his attitude to life. He has that archetypal Tasmanian “look”, slightly woolly and wild, a little bit free range with a genuine social conscience projected through his demeanour. He has talent in abundance, he uses the manners his parents taught him and at the end of the day is just a helluva good bloke!
Our conversation was recorded at Peter’s home whilst consuming alcohol in moderation!
For those of you out there in Brassland wanting something extra special………You have your Whish.
Geoff Meikle, 2020
Peter Whish-Wilson - Interview transcript, 9 October, 2020.
Geoff Meikle; “Okay I’m here with Mr Peter Whish-Wilson and we’re recording for the South Australian brass band profiles. So, Peter, name and place of birth please.”
Peter Whish-Wilson; “Peter John Whish-Wilson, Smithton Tasmania.”
GM; “And Parents names.”
Whish; “Keith and Leonie.”
GM; “And what instruments do you play Peter?”
Whish; “Oh I’m still trying to play the tuba! (GM, ‘trying to!!’), that’s all I’ve ever played but I do play C tuba and Eb tuba.”
GM; “I reckon I might have seen a bass trombone in your room early on in the piece.”
Whish; “Aw yeah, I’ve mucked around with the saxophone etc, but tuba is what I really want to master, (GM, ‘and I think you have!’)….No….(GM, ‘not no, a very definite yes!’)”
GM; “Who were your first influences and who gave you your first lessons?”
Whish; “Well my dad was a tuba player but he wasn’t very good by his own admission. He used to drive the local brass band around in a bus and thought he might as well contribute, so he got a Bb tuba and played it then gave me my very first lesson. He said to me ‘son, you’re better than I ever was’, that’s how bad he was! But really my first teacher was a guy called Wally Bentley, who deserves a lot more recognition than he gets because he trained up 3 or 4 Australian champions including a couple of euphonium players and cornet players. He got me competing a few months after I started and that was in the Devonport Eisteddfod.”
GM; “What year was that Peter?”
Whish; “August 1970.”
GM; “Sorry Peter I forgot to ask you what year you were born.”
Whish; “1958 and I started playing in 1969, I’d just turned 11.”
GM; “Yeah I was 11 when I started as well, funnily enough, right keep going, tell us about Wally.”
Whish; “Oh he was an amazing guy, he was very strict, he was incredibly devoted. Before competitions my parents used to sign a note that got me the week off school. I’d board in Smithton because even though I was born in Smithton we lived in a little place about 20 k’s out called Lileah which had a population of about 15! So, I’d board with Uncle Fred in the big town of Smithton and I’d have the whole week off. We’d sit down just the two of us in the bandroom and do six hours every day. (GM, ‘six hours!!’), just him and me getting ready for the competition.”
GM; “Did he focus on fundamentals and how to blow the instrument and things that you would study or was it all about getting you through the solo?”
Whish; “Well fortunately I was a fairly natural sort of player…and..so..even to this day I don’t like to think too much about how I do things and technique…..I mean I obviously want to play with a big fat sound.”
GM; “You’re articulation is very precise and neat, I remember Hal Hall saying to me years ago as you were warming up..’listen to that articulation.’ Did that come naturally to you or was that part of his influence?”
Whish; “….I think it just came to me but I listened to lots and lots of tuba players and lots of other musicians as well, brass players….even people like Frank Sinatra and all those singers had a huge effect on me.”
GM; “That’s one of the things I always admired about Greg Frick, he had that beautiful percussive attack. (Whish, ‘yeah it’s really clear’). Ok what bands have you played in?”
Whish; “Well I moved to Melbourne when I was 15. I had met this guy called Wilf Dyason when he came over to Tasmania to judge one of the Eisteddfods. I was going to join the Navy Band, I was dying to join the Navy Band. What I should have said earlier was that after the very first lesson I ever had I went home and said to my mum even though I didn’t know that you could do this for a job….(GM; At this point Peter went into his 11 year old voice!!)…..’Mum, I’m going to do this for the rest of my life and it’s going to be my job’ (laughter!!). She told me the other day that I’d said that. Then I was going to join the Navy Band but Wilf Dyason who was a well-known figure and is sadly no longer with us said to my parents would Peter like to come over to Melbourne. Well firstly I flew over to Melbourne and played in some of those massed A grade bands they had, Footscray-Yarraville, Preston, Hawthorn and Malvern. Wilf was the conductor of Malvern and we used to play at the Myer Music Bowl and the Melbourne Town Hall, it was really good fun and everyone was really beautiful. That’s where I first met Ollie Clark and lots and lots of other people. And then Wilf approached my parents and said ‘look we’d like to get Peter into the College of the Arts and also have him in our band….what if he comes over and we get him a job until the College of the Arts comes up next year he can play with our band’….so that’s what happened. So I had the choice of going to Melbourne or had the backstop of going to the Navy Band if I wasn’t happy in Melbourne. Anyway I took to Melbourne like a duck to water…..that’s where I met Gary Bishop who had just moved down from Sydney and also John McMillan who had just moved over from New Zealand. Do you know John?”
GM; “Yeah I met him years ago through Paul Cerezo.”
Whish; “ Well we were all in the Malvern Band together, well Gary wasn’t because his dad conducted Caulfield. Well anyway Gary and I used to practise six hours a day…..we were maniacs! I remember on Monday nights we’d go and rehearse with Kew, Tuesday nights was Malvern, Wednesday Caulfield, Thursday was Hawthorn then Friday, Saturday and Sunday there were gigs with Malvern Band…..it was just full on banding!
GM; “Sounds like a great grounding.”
Whish; “Oh it was, with great people and really good A grade musicians who were also very nice people, and we’re still friends to this day.”
GM; “And what about in South Australia?”
Whish; “Basically just K and N and Tanunda. I’ve done tours with them and played in competitions, all beautiful people and really good musicians.”
GM; “Wonderful. Has there been a particular time in your life that has been important in shaping you as a musician? I think you may have answered that already from the brass band point of view. What about your career as an orchestral musician?”
Whish; “Well……I did audition when I was fifteen for the Victorian College of the Arts and I got in and so I started the next year when I turned sixteen. I then got an invitation to play with the Melbourne Youth Orchestra. They were doing a big tour to England and Germany which included East and West Berlin, so we went off and that’s when I got introduced to orchestral music, even though I had played in a symphony orchestra in Tasmania in 1969, the Northern Tasmanian Youth Orchestra but that wasn’t much of an introduction really……I’d only just started playing. So we went off on this tour and we’re doing Tchaikovsky’s Romeo and Juliet, Lutoslawski’s Concerto for Orchestra, the Meistersingers of Nuremberg Overture…. I just fell in love with that music as well and met really lovely people all the time…….I just always tried to play with better and better players you know. For instance, going back to solo competitions. Let’s say you and I played against each other and you beat me by a point I would go home and practise and practise and practise so that next time you wouldn’t beat me by a point….(laughter).”
GM; “Well that leads us very neatly into this next question which is ‘Contesting, is it worth the effort?’
Whish; “Well yeah, anything that makes you work harder and makes you become a better musician……even if it’s because you want to beat the other bands…..anything that makes you a better musician is worth the effort but don’t take the result too seriously because there are some adjudicators out there who have their ears painted on……”
GM; “Would you care to name a few?..(laughter!!).”
Whish; “Nah, I’ve been around too long to open my big mouth like that!! But there is a story about Harold Walmsley, who I loved very much. He was adjudicating and the first band came on, they were great so he gave them 98. Then the next band came on and they were even better so he had to give them 100, another band came on and eventually the winning band got 109/100!!.... (more laughter!!). But Digger was a character…one of the characters I’ve met through brass bands, as you know.”
GM; “What I’ll put to you is that in terms of your professional aspirations and for someone like yourself who has a genuine fire in the belly, contesting, anything that makes you better has to be good. And certainly, amateur musicians who play in community bands don’t want to be bad…. but do you think that contesting could have a negative effect on those people. I’m talking about things like removing a player from their position and replacing them with a better player for a contest. How do you feel about that?”
Whish; “Ah, well….it depends on your make up, there are lots of people who want to put the band first and their ego second that would be fine but other people would think ‘well I’ve been there the whole year and I’ve been dragged out at the last minute by someone who’s better’ that would be annoying as well.”
GM; “That’s right they’ve done all the hard yards and the jobs that the stars don’t want to do. How do you feel about that?”
Whish; “Well I wouldn’t blame them for being upset…..but I can also understand the feelings of the better players who get to go away with all these great people and play good music…”
GM; “There would also be the feeling amongst the good players too that ‘I’ve busted my guts to be good and I want to play with good players and make a great sound’. There’s probably room for a number of points of view within community music I’d say.”
Whish; “Yeah and I can understand………. these people who get professionals in for the last rehearsal and they blow everyone away and the poor other people who turn up every week, week after week …. get wiped like a dirty bottom by these guys who’ve got the ring-ins.”
GM; “Well, we’ll leave that question and move on to the question of what awards, prizes and achievements have made you glad that you made the effort? You’ve probably got a list of prizes as long as your arm, but what are the major ones?
Whish; “Well…one of the major ones I was really proud of is when I was 16 in the Tasmanian Solo Championships I won the ‘any other instrument apart from cornet’ in the juniors then went on to win the champion of champions and then went on to do the same in the seniors, so I won everything in one day when I was 16. I was also junior and senior national Eb tuba champion at the ages of 14, 15 and 16. I was voted into the ‘Band of the Century’ compiled by the Australian Brass Band Magazine….…..and a few other things I s’pose….yeah….. they’re just things that come along without you even thinking about it……I mean if you work your backside off things come, you don’t plan for them to come.
GM; “And what about styles of music. What are your preferred styles of music?”
Whish; “Obviously I like brass bands, orchestral, jazz, klezmer, big band, small ensembles…”
GM; “Klezmer…..What’s that?”
Whish; “Ancient Jewish music……you never listened to it…….it’s great, like old Jewish wedding music where the clarinets go wild…….it’s really old!” (GM, ‘Oh yeah, yeah ok’). It’s almost got a touch of gypsy in it…..anything that’s well played Geoff.”
GM; “I’m totally with you there. Ok who are your favourite bands, musicians and musical associates? These don’t have to be famous people; they can be anyone you’ve played with over the journey”
Whish; “Oh Geoff there’s just too many to say…..there’s just soooo many! I loved studying with Roger Bobo, Arnold Jacobs and Michael Lind obviously…those three are from the Los Angeles Philharmonic, the Chicago Symphony and the Stockholm Orchestra and I had lessons with Ian King, a tuba player who was with the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra in the ‘50s and John Woods from the MSO. I’ve had lessons from everybody… Glenn Madden, Jim (Dempsey)….. I think we had probably the best orchestral brass section for about 30 years you know…..arguably”
GM; “Fair enough, I can’t think of anyone in Australia who could play first trumpet better than Glenn Madden or tuba better than you that’s for sure.”
Whish; “Thank you mate, I’ve played in all the symphony orchestras around Australia and there are some great players, too many to name Geoff.”
GM; “What would you do differently?”
Whish; “Oh nothing, I got a scholarship to go and study with Roger Bobo in Los Angeles in 1978 and I had only just joined the Adelaide Symphony. I applied to get leave from the orchestra to move to L.A. and they said no. So, I was just going to resign but I didn’t……. but I don’t think I was ready for L.A. in 1978.”
GM; “Do you think L.A. was ready for you?”
Whish; “Probably not (raucous laughter!!), I was pretty wild back then. I love L.A., I love that city! Yeah so that would have been different, and also you know the Sydney Symphony when Cliff (Goodchild) left. But there was so little extra money offered to move to Sydney, you pay twice as much for a house as you pay here…..I didn’t bother.”
GM; “Well it’s funny because before I interviewed Greg (Frick) I looked on line for the average wages of …….. because I had this thing about professional musicians who started in brass bands so I looked on line and found the average wages of orchestral musicians. In Queensland it was $75,000 and Sydney was about $76,000…… well I thought that can’t be right, the sample group must include casuals and part-timers, rather than full-time professionals because you couldn’t buy a house in Sydney or live or eat or rent a house on $76,000 per year.”
Whish; “Well most orchestral musicians have to teach as well. I taught for 35 years and enjoyed it, I really loved my students and still do. But when I didn’t go to Sydney, they got Steve (Rosse) from America in and it wasn’t long after that Paul Keating made Sydney the flagship orchestra and gave them a 50% increase.”
GM; “Ok, what effect has banding had on your family life?”
Whish; “Well, no effect… .I think brass bands are one big family. When I used to compete Mum and Dad used to come along and Dad would be betting all the other fathers a scotch that ‘my son will beat your son’ (laughter). They all got right into it.”
GM; “Has banding effected your social life?”
Whish; “It sure has, I’ve had some incredible parties with too many people to name, it’s enhanced it.”
GM; “Okay and what are your other interests?”
Whish; “Ah well, cooking, wine, movies, food, travel and crosswords. (GM; ‘crosswords!’), well when you’re a tuba player you have to learn to do crosswords or you’ll go crazy, you know you might have a thousand bars rest…… but just taking it easy. I’ve got a shack up on the river which I love going to, I like building things.”
GM; “With the orchestral schedule you’re not always required and you do have time off. How do you fill in that time off, I mean you were born in 1958 so your 62 now so you’re heading towards retirement territory and you’d be thinking about what you’ll do in retirement, but even through the prime of your life you’ve had time off in between orchestral engagements…..What did you do to fill that time?”
Whish; “Well I’ve always had some project on the go, whether it be fishing, you know I was a fishing addict for years and I used to build model planes and stuff. I dabbled in real estate where I bought an old bank, a 1917 bank and restored that…… I was a real estate tycoon (laughter!)… I had these backpackers and….(GM, ‘Was it profitable?). No, no I’m better off being a musician. I had these drunken Irish guys who trashed the place…….”
GM; “Sorry to interrupt, I must say we’ve had a bit of a dabble in real estate for different reasons but I reckon I’m far better off just being a schoolteacher and putting the money into super.”
Whish; “Yeah I put money into super…. I’ve still got a place in Prospect, but I’ve got someone to look after that.”
GM; “Okay, what lies ahead for you?”
Whish; “Well you talk about me retiring, I haven’t reached my peak yet! (laughter)…..I don’t want to retire……I mean what am I going to do then, I’m still playing great…..a lot of travel with my partner, also I’ve got two beautiful daughters, one’s recently married one would’ve been married next month but because of the virus it’s been postponed for a year.”
GM; “Well they look like they’re thriving from what I’ve seen one Facebook.”
Whish; “Yeah one’s a criminal lawyer, the other one works for a vet, she loves animals. They both love their jobs and they’ve got beautiful, beautiful partners. I adore their partners and they’re really happy and I’m living with a beautiful lady and everything’s good……you know…I’m spending a lot of time at my shack now, doing a lot of things there to do it up. I suppose I’m slowly getting ready for retirement but I’m in no hurry, I wouldn’t mind doing 50 years of being a pro, I’m only up to 45 so…..”
GM; “Okay well that’s not out of the question, the tuba’s fairly physically demanding though I suppose…”
Whish; “Haha not when you’re in top physical shape like me!”
GM; “Fair enough, well of course the ASO doesn’t march does it! (Laughter).”
Whish; “My marching record is pretty well known, I’m a shocking marcher….. shocking!”
GM; “Alright let’s finish off this bit of the interview with any other thoughts and opinions.”
Whish; “On brass bands?”
GM; “Brass bands, life, whatever you want mate.”
Whish; “I love brass bands, I love the sound of them. I know that they’re becoming more out of fashion because of concert bands but I think that brass bands are better for trumpet or cornet players. In a concert band I think the clarinet players get more of the violin parts so some trumpet players aren’t as technically proficient……but we’ve got to somehow make sure that banding continues onwards and upwards. Anything that can nourish young musicians and feed into an A grade band or a symphony orchestra or a jazz ensemble or anything, you need that it’s like a nursery.”
GM; “That’s right but also just for their own sake, for the average person to go and express themselves on a musical instrument is very important.”
Whish; “Yeah, kids need something to do. I heard a saying the other day. If kids play brass they don’t break glass, you know they don’t…… (GM, ‘go around smashing telephone boxes, if we had telephone boxes’) Yeah, I thought that’s really true! If you keep a young kid occupied, I mean not every kid is going to be a sportsman and that’s what annoys me about this government, all governments, they put so much money into sports and nothing into kids that show promise in the arts or science. What’s happened now since Covid 19 with support of artists and musicians….. there’s nothing for them because they haven’t had the same employer. I was lucky because I’ve had the same employer, but lots of musicians, professional musicians, do gigs at different places every weekend.”
GM; “You’re part of that thin film of brilliance Peter.”
Whish; “I was very lucky.”
GM; “Ok so part two, Peter Whish-Wilson. Peter as a professional musician with a brass band background I would like you to consider addressing these questions as part of your story. Number one. How would you characterise your approach to playing your instrument now compared with your early brass band days?”
Whish; “Oh with as much enthusiasm, I’m a much better player now than I was in my early brass band days but I still try to play as well as possible.”
GM; “What about your approach to practice and the fundamentals?”
Whish; “I still practise but these days as a professional I practise more for the repertoire that I’m playing at the moment.”
GM; “Do you have a daily routine? Greg (Frick) has got a daily routine (Whish, ‘Oh he does, yeah”) and then if he knows there is something hard coming up, he gets it sent to him as a PDF and practises it.”
Whish; “Well I just go into town (to the ABC studio)…… but I’ve got all those excerpts anyway. I do Borgdoni and Blazevich and all those things when I warm up and then tailor my practice around what’s coming up.”
GM; “Fair enough. Is there a difference between the pressure you feel as a pro and the pressure you felt on the brass band contest stage?”
Whish; “Yes I feel more pressure when I play in brass band competitions…. but I think it’s because when you play with a professional orchestra you’re playing there all the time and everyone knows how you play…….. but when you’re stepping into a brass band after doing one or two rehearsals….. they don’t know how you play all the time and because you’re a pro sitting in there you know….(GM; ‘big expectations’) I think so and that makes it a bit more….. also nerves are really contagious. If you’re sitting next to someone who is really nervous it’s contagious. If you’re sitting in a band that’s been rehearsing for 5 months to play this really difficult piece you can feel the energy around you whereas when you’re a professional you’re playing concerts every week and people aren’t as tense or nervous, I think that might have something to do with it as well.”
GM; “Is there one particular quality a musician needs to become a pro or do they need a cocktail of qualities to enable them to perform professionally?”
Whish; “Well you need good rhythm, good sound, good intonation you need to be able to play musically and do it consistently .... (GM, ‘not make mistakes’).. yeah if you can do something 99 times out of a 100 correctly, well I’m not a gambling man but that’s pretty good odds.”
GM; “How many cocktails would you advise someone to consume before they perform?”
Whish; “Ooh I wouldn’t advise (GM, ‘What’s your record? Haha) Well I wouldn’t advise anyone to have any…. if you can have a couple as long as it doesn’t affect your playing that’s my advice…… you know if you’re really nervous maybe have a beer. It’s like playing pool, you have two beers and you’re playing like Eddie Charlton, you have a third and you fall over and rip the cloth with your cue and you go home after someone has broken the other cue over your head!!....... Yeah I wouldn’t advise it!”
GM; “The next one is multiple choice. Do you play for free when asked to by a brass band A) Yes, B) No, please explain, C) Depends on whether they provide free cocktails.”
Whish; “I’d play with anyone…. A.”
GM; “Do you still enjoy being part of the brass band scene A) Yes B) No, please explain C) Only if it involves a vast quantity of cocktails.”
Whish; “I love it and and C, I love the cocktails afterwards (laughter).”
GM; “Alright mate, thanks a lot I’ve really enjoyed this.”
Whish; “Me too Geoff it’s been a lot of fun.”
GM; “Beautiful!”
“Work hard, play hard.” Of all the people I know I can think of no better example of this maxim than Peter Whish-Wilson.
There is a debate amongst Australia’s sporting historians as to whether Don Bradman or Walter Lindrum was Australia’s best sportsman. There is also a separate debate about whether billiards is really a sport. Walter Lindrum was so good at billiards that they had to change the rules, the “nursery cannon” was outlawed. The most notable characteristic that Walter possessed was the ability to practise beyond the point where most people go numb and are unable to practise beneficially.
In my opinion Peter Whish-Wilson possesses this same ability both at work and play.
His monumental work ethic has been rewarded with stellar success playing the brass band’s second lowest voice. His “play sessions”, especially those with his chief playmate Bob Hower, are legendary. Whish keeps going when the rest of us fall by the wayside. He is full of life, generous and hearty. The words love and beautiful are found frequently in his conversations and ring true in his attitude to life. He has that archetypal Tasmanian “look”, slightly woolly and wild, a little bit free range with a genuine social conscience projected through his demeanour. He has talent in abundance, he uses the manners his parents taught him and at the end of the day is just a helluva good bloke!
Our conversation was recorded at Peter’s home whilst consuming alcohol in moderation!
For those of you out there in Brassland wanting something extra special………You have your Whish.
Geoff Meikle, 2020
Peter Whish-Wilson - Interview transcript, 9 October, 2020.
Geoff Meikle; “Okay I’m here with Mr Peter Whish-Wilson and we’re recording for the South Australian brass band profiles. So, Peter, name and place of birth please.”
Peter Whish-Wilson; “Peter John Whish-Wilson, Smithton Tasmania.”
GM; “And Parents names.”
Whish; “Keith and Leonie.”
GM; “And what instruments do you play Peter?”
Whish; “Oh I’m still trying to play the tuba! (GM, ‘trying to!!’), that’s all I’ve ever played but I do play C tuba and Eb tuba.”
GM; “I reckon I might have seen a bass trombone in your room early on in the piece.”
Whish; “Aw yeah, I’ve mucked around with the saxophone etc, but tuba is what I really want to master, (GM, ‘and I think you have!’)….No….(GM, ‘not no, a very definite yes!’)”
GM; “Who were your first influences and who gave you your first lessons?”
Whish; “Well my dad was a tuba player but he wasn’t very good by his own admission. He used to drive the local brass band around in a bus and thought he might as well contribute, so he got a Bb tuba and played it then gave me my very first lesson. He said to me ‘son, you’re better than I ever was’, that’s how bad he was! But really my first teacher was a guy called Wally Bentley, who deserves a lot more recognition than he gets because he trained up 3 or 4 Australian champions including a couple of euphonium players and cornet players. He got me competing a few months after I started and that was in the Devonport Eisteddfod.”
GM; “What year was that Peter?”
Whish; “August 1970.”
GM; “Sorry Peter I forgot to ask you what year you were born.”
Whish; “1958 and I started playing in 1969, I’d just turned 11.”
GM; “Yeah I was 11 when I started as well, funnily enough, right keep going, tell us about Wally.”
Whish; “Oh he was an amazing guy, he was very strict, he was incredibly devoted. Before competitions my parents used to sign a note that got me the week off school. I’d board in Smithton because even though I was born in Smithton we lived in a little place about 20 k’s out called Lileah which had a population of about 15! So, I’d board with Uncle Fred in the big town of Smithton and I’d have the whole week off. We’d sit down just the two of us in the bandroom and do six hours every day. (GM, ‘six hours!!’), just him and me getting ready for the competition.”
GM; “Did he focus on fundamentals and how to blow the instrument and things that you would study or was it all about getting you through the solo?”
Whish; “Well fortunately I was a fairly natural sort of player…and..so..even to this day I don’t like to think too much about how I do things and technique…..I mean I obviously want to play with a big fat sound.”
GM; “You’re articulation is very precise and neat, I remember Hal Hall saying to me years ago as you were warming up..’listen to that articulation.’ Did that come naturally to you or was that part of his influence?”
Whish; “….I think it just came to me but I listened to lots and lots of tuba players and lots of other musicians as well, brass players….even people like Frank Sinatra and all those singers had a huge effect on me.”
GM; “That’s one of the things I always admired about Greg Frick, he had that beautiful percussive attack. (Whish, ‘yeah it’s really clear’). Ok what bands have you played in?”
Whish; “Well I moved to Melbourne when I was 15. I had met this guy called Wilf Dyason when he came over to Tasmania to judge one of the Eisteddfods. I was going to join the Navy Band, I was dying to join the Navy Band. What I should have said earlier was that after the very first lesson I ever had I went home and said to my mum even though I didn’t know that you could do this for a job….(GM; At this point Peter went into his 11 year old voice!!)…..’Mum, I’m going to do this for the rest of my life and it’s going to be my job’ (laughter!!). She told me the other day that I’d said that. Then I was going to join the Navy Band but Wilf Dyason who was a well-known figure and is sadly no longer with us said to my parents would Peter like to come over to Melbourne. Well firstly I flew over to Melbourne and played in some of those massed A grade bands they had, Footscray-Yarraville, Preston, Hawthorn and Malvern. Wilf was the conductor of Malvern and we used to play at the Myer Music Bowl and the Melbourne Town Hall, it was really good fun and everyone was really beautiful. That’s where I first met Ollie Clark and lots and lots of other people. And then Wilf approached my parents and said ‘look we’d like to get Peter into the College of the Arts and also have him in our band….what if he comes over and we get him a job until the College of the Arts comes up next year he can play with our band’….so that’s what happened. So I had the choice of going to Melbourne or had the backstop of going to the Navy Band if I wasn’t happy in Melbourne. Anyway I took to Melbourne like a duck to water…..that’s where I met Gary Bishop who had just moved down from Sydney and also John McMillan who had just moved over from New Zealand. Do you know John?”
GM; “Yeah I met him years ago through Paul Cerezo.”
Whish; “ Well we were all in the Malvern Band together, well Gary wasn’t because his dad conducted Caulfield. Well anyway Gary and I used to practise six hours a day…..we were maniacs! I remember on Monday nights we’d go and rehearse with Kew, Tuesday nights was Malvern, Wednesday Caulfield, Thursday was Hawthorn then Friday, Saturday and Sunday there were gigs with Malvern Band…..it was just full on banding!
GM; “Sounds like a great grounding.”
Whish; “Oh it was, with great people and really good A grade musicians who were also very nice people, and we’re still friends to this day.”
GM; “And what about in South Australia?”
Whish; “Basically just K and N and Tanunda. I’ve done tours with them and played in competitions, all beautiful people and really good musicians.”
GM; “Wonderful. Has there been a particular time in your life that has been important in shaping you as a musician? I think you may have answered that already from the brass band point of view. What about your career as an orchestral musician?”
Whish; “Well……I did audition when I was fifteen for the Victorian College of the Arts and I got in and so I started the next year when I turned sixteen. I then got an invitation to play with the Melbourne Youth Orchestra. They were doing a big tour to England and Germany which included East and West Berlin, so we went off and that’s when I got introduced to orchestral music, even though I had played in a symphony orchestra in Tasmania in 1969, the Northern Tasmanian Youth Orchestra but that wasn’t much of an introduction really……I’d only just started playing. So we went off on this tour and we’re doing Tchaikovsky’s Romeo and Juliet, Lutoslawski’s Concerto for Orchestra, the Meistersingers of Nuremberg Overture…. I just fell in love with that music as well and met really lovely people all the time…….I just always tried to play with better and better players you know. For instance, going back to solo competitions. Let’s say you and I played against each other and you beat me by a point I would go home and practise and practise and practise so that next time you wouldn’t beat me by a point….(laughter).”
GM; “Well that leads us very neatly into this next question which is ‘Contesting, is it worth the effort?’
Whish; “Well yeah, anything that makes you work harder and makes you become a better musician……even if it’s because you want to beat the other bands…..anything that makes you a better musician is worth the effort but don’t take the result too seriously because there are some adjudicators out there who have their ears painted on……”
GM; “Would you care to name a few?..(laughter!!).”
Whish; “Nah, I’ve been around too long to open my big mouth like that!! But there is a story about Harold Walmsley, who I loved very much. He was adjudicating and the first band came on, they were great so he gave them 98. Then the next band came on and they were even better so he had to give them 100, another band came on and eventually the winning band got 109/100!!.... (more laughter!!). But Digger was a character…one of the characters I’ve met through brass bands, as you know.”
GM; “What I’ll put to you is that in terms of your professional aspirations and for someone like yourself who has a genuine fire in the belly, contesting, anything that makes you better has to be good. And certainly, amateur musicians who play in community bands don’t want to be bad…. but do you think that contesting could have a negative effect on those people. I’m talking about things like removing a player from their position and replacing them with a better player for a contest. How do you feel about that?”
Whish; “Ah, well….it depends on your make up, there are lots of people who want to put the band first and their ego second that would be fine but other people would think ‘well I’ve been there the whole year and I’ve been dragged out at the last minute by someone who’s better’ that would be annoying as well.”
GM; “That’s right they’ve done all the hard yards and the jobs that the stars don’t want to do. How do you feel about that?”
Whish; “Well I wouldn’t blame them for being upset…..but I can also understand the feelings of the better players who get to go away with all these great people and play good music…”
GM; “There would also be the feeling amongst the good players too that ‘I’ve busted my guts to be good and I want to play with good players and make a great sound’. There’s probably room for a number of points of view within community music I’d say.”
Whish; “Yeah and I can understand………. these people who get professionals in for the last rehearsal and they blow everyone away and the poor other people who turn up every week, week after week …. get wiped like a dirty bottom by these guys who’ve got the ring-ins.”
GM; “Well, we’ll leave that question and move on to the question of what awards, prizes and achievements have made you glad that you made the effort? You’ve probably got a list of prizes as long as your arm, but what are the major ones?
Whish; “Well…one of the major ones I was really proud of is when I was 16 in the Tasmanian Solo Championships I won the ‘any other instrument apart from cornet’ in the juniors then went on to win the champion of champions and then went on to do the same in the seniors, so I won everything in one day when I was 16. I was also junior and senior national Eb tuba champion at the ages of 14, 15 and 16. I was voted into the ‘Band of the Century’ compiled by the Australian Brass Band Magazine….…..and a few other things I s’pose….yeah….. they’re just things that come along without you even thinking about it……I mean if you work your backside off things come, you don’t plan for them to come.
GM; “And what about styles of music. What are your preferred styles of music?”
Whish; “Obviously I like brass bands, orchestral, jazz, klezmer, big band, small ensembles…”
GM; “Klezmer…..What’s that?”
Whish; “Ancient Jewish music……you never listened to it…….it’s great, like old Jewish wedding music where the clarinets go wild…….it’s really old!” (GM, ‘Oh yeah, yeah ok’). It’s almost got a touch of gypsy in it…..anything that’s well played Geoff.”
GM; “I’m totally with you there. Ok who are your favourite bands, musicians and musical associates? These don’t have to be famous people; they can be anyone you’ve played with over the journey”
Whish; “Oh Geoff there’s just too many to say…..there’s just soooo many! I loved studying with Roger Bobo, Arnold Jacobs and Michael Lind obviously…those three are from the Los Angeles Philharmonic, the Chicago Symphony and the Stockholm Orchestra and I had lessons with Ian King, a tuba player who was with the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra in the ‘50s and John Woods from the MSO. I’ve had lessons from everybody… Glenn Madden, Jim (Dempsey)….. I think we had probably the best orchestral brass section for about 30 years you know…..arguably”
GM; “Fair enough, I can’t think of anyone in Australia who could play first trumpet better than Glenn Madden or tuba better than you that’s for sure.”
Whish; “Thank you mate, I’ve played in all the symphony orchestras around Australia and there are some great players, too many to name Geoff.”
GM; “What would you do differently?”
Whish; “Oh nothing, I got a scholarship to go and study with Roger Bobo in Los Angeles in 1978 and I had only just joined the Adelaide Symphony. I applied to get leave from the orchestra to move to L.A. and they said no. So, I was just going to resign but I didn’t……. but I don’t think I was ready for L.A. in 1978.”
GM; “Do you think L.A. was ready for you?”
Whish; “Probably not (raucous laughter!!), I was pretty wild back then. I love L.A., I love that city! Yeah so that would have been different, and also you know the Sydney Symphony when Cliff (Goodchild) left. But there was so little extra money offered to move to Sydney, you pay twice as much for a house as you pay here…..I didn’t bother.”
GM; “Well it’s funny because before I interviewed Greg (Frick) I looked on line for the average wages of …….. because I had this thing about professional musicians who started in brass bands so I looked on line and found the average wages of orchestral musicians. In Queensland it was $75,000 and Sydney was about $76,000…… well I thought that can’t be right, the sample group must include casuals and part-timers, rather than full-time professionals because you couldn’t buy a house in Sydney or live or eat or rent a house on $76,000 per year.”
Whish; “Well most orchestral musicians have to teach as well. I taught for 35 years and enjoyed it, I really loved my students and still do. But when I didn’t go to Sydney, they got Steve (Rosse) from America in and it wasn’t long after that Paul Keating made Sydney the flagship orchestra and gave them a 50% increase.”
GM; “Ok, what effect has banding had on your family life?”
Whish; “Well, no effect… .I think brass bands are one big family. When I used to compete Mum and Dad used to come along and Dad would be betting all the other fathers a scotch that ‘my son will beat your son’ (laughter). They all got right into it.”
GM; “Has banding effected your social life?”
Whish; “It sure has, I’ve had some incredible parties with too many people to name, it’s enhanced it.”
GM; “Okay and what are your other interests?”
Whish; “Ah well, cooking, wine, movies, food, travel and crosswords. (GM; ‘crosswords!’), well when you’re a tuba player you have to learn to do crosswords or you’ll go crazy, you know you might have a thousand bars rest…… but just taking it easy. I’ve got a shack up on the river which I love going to, I like building things.”
GM; “With the orchestral schedule you’re not always required and you do have time off. How do you fill in that time off, I mean you were born in 1958 so your 62 now so you’re heading towards retirement territory and you’d be thinking about what you’ll do in retirement, but even through the prime of your life you’ve had time off in between orchestral engagements…..What did you do to fill that time?”
Whish; “Well I’ve always had some project on the go, whether it be fishing, you know I was a fishing addict for years and I used to build model planes and stuff. I dabbled in real estate where I bought an old bank, a 1917 bank and restored that…… I was a real estate tycoon (laughter!)… I had these backpackers and….(GM, ‘Was it profitable?). No, no I’m better off being a musician. I had these drunken Irish guys who trashed the place…….”
GM; “Sorry to interrupt, I must say we’ve had a bit of a dabble in real estate for different reasons but I reckon I’m far better off just being a schoolteacher and putting the money into super.”
Whish; “Yeah I put money into super…. I’ve still got a place in Prospect, but I’ve got someone to look after that.”
GM; “Okay, what lies ahead for you?”
Whish; “Well you talk about me retiring, I haven’t reached my peak yet! (laughter)…..I don’t want to retire……I mean what am I going to do then, I’m still playing great…..a lot of travel with my partner, also I’ve got two beautiful daughters, one’s recently married one would’ve been married next month but because of the virus it’s been postponed for a year.”
GM; “Well they look like they’re thriving from what I’ve seen one Facebook.”
Whish; “Yeah one’s a criminal lawyer, the other one works for a vet, she loves animals. They both love their jobs and they’ve got beautiful, beautiful partners. I adore their partners and they’re really happy and I’m living with a beautiful lady and everything’s good……you know…I’m spending a lot of time at my shack now, doing a lot of things there to do it up. I suppose I’m slowly getting ready for retirement but I’m in no hurry, I wouldn’t mind doing 50 years of being a pro, I’m only up to 45 so…..”
GM; “Okay well that’s not out of the question, the tuba’s fairly physically demanding though I suppose…”
Whish; “Haha not when you’re in top physical shape like me!”
GM; “Fair enough, well of course the ASO doesn’t march does it! (Laughter).”
Whish; “My marching record is pretty well known, I’m a shocking marcher….. shocking!”
GM; “Alright let’s finish off this bit of the interview with any other thoughts and opinions.”
Whish; “On brass bands?”
GM; “Brass bands, life, whatever you want mate.”
Whish; “I love brass bands, I love the sound of them. I know that they’re becoming more out of fashion because of concert bands but I think that brass bands are better for trumpet or cornet players. In a concert band I think the clarinet players get more of the violin parts so some trumpet players aren’t as technically proficient……but we’ve got to somehow make sure that banding continues onwards and upwards. Anything that can nourish young musicians and feed into an A grade band or a symphony orchestra or a jazz ensemble or anything, you need that it’s like a nursery.”
GM; “That’s right but also just for their own sake, for the average person to go and express themselves on a musical instrument is very important.”
Whish; “Yeah, kids need something to do. I heard a saying the other day. If kids play brass they don’t break glass, you know they don’t…… (GM, ‘go around smashing telephone boxes, if we had telephone boxes’) Yeah, I thought that’s really true! If you keep a young kid occupied, I mean not every kid is going to be a sportsman and that’s what annoys me about this government, all governments, they put so much money into sports and nothing into kids that show promise in the arts or science. What’s happened now since Covid 19 with support of artists and musicians….. there’s nothing for them because they haven’t had the same employer. I was lucky because I’ve had the same employer, but lots of musicians, professional musicians, do gigs at different places every weekend.”
GM; “You’re part of that thin film of brilliance Peter.”
Whish; “I was very lucky.”
GM; “Ok so part two, Peter Whish-Wilson. Peter as a professional musician with a brass band background I would like you to consider addressing these questions as part of your story. Number one. How would you characterise your approach to playing your instrument now compared with your early brass band days?”
Whish; “Oh with as much enthusiasm, I’m a much better player now than I was in my early brass band days but I still try to play as well as possible.”
GM; “What about your approach to practice and the fundamentals?”
Whish; “I still practise but these days as a professional I practise more for the repertoire that I’m playing at the moment.”
GM; “Do you have a daily routine? Greg (Frick) has got a daily routine (Whish, ‘Oh he does, yeah”) and then if he knows there is something hard coming up, he gets it sent to him as a PDF and practises it.”
Whish; “Well I just go into town (to the ABC studio)…… but I’ve got all those excerpts anyway. I do Borgdoni and Blazevich and all those things when I warm up and then tailor my practice around what’s coming up.”
GM; “Fair enough. Is there a difference between the pressure you feel as a pro and the pressure you felt on the brass band contest stage?”
Whish; “Yes I feel more pressure when I play in brass band competitions…. but I think it’s because when you play with a professional orchestra you’re playing there all the time and everyone knows how you play…….. but when you’re stepping into a brass band after doing one or two rehearsals….. they don’t know how you play all the time and because you’re a pro sitting in there you know….(GM; ‘big expectations’) I think so and that makes it a bit more….. also nerves are really contagious. If you’re sitting next to someone who is really nervous it’s contagious. If you’re sitting in a band that’s been rehearsing for 5 months to play this really difficult piece you can feel the energy around you whereas when you’re a professional you’re playing concerts every week and people aren’t as tense or nervous, I think that might have something to do with it as well.”
GM; “Is there one particular quality a musician needs to become a pro or do they need a cocktail of qualities to enable them to perform professionally?”
Whish; “Well you need good rhythm, good sound, good intonation you need to be able to play musically and do it consistently .... (GM, ‘not make mistakes’).. yeah if you can do something 99 times out of a 100 correctly, well I’m not a gambling man but that’s pretty good odds.”
GM; “How many cocktails would you advise someone to consume before they perform?”
Whish; “Ooh I wouldn’t advise (GM, ‘What’s your record? Haha) Well I wouldn’t advise anyone to have any…. if you can have a couple as long as it doesn’t affect your playing that’s my advice…… you know if you’re really nervous maybe have a beer. It’s like playing pool, you have two beers and you’re playing like Eddie Charlton, you have a third and you fall over and rip the cloth with your cue and you go home after someone has broken the other cue over your head!!....... Yeah I wouldn’t advise it!”
GM; “The next one is multiple choice. Do you play for free when asked to by a brass band A) Yes, B) No, please explain, C) Depends on whether they provide free cocktails.”
Whish; “I’d play with anyone…. A.”
GM; “Do you still enjoy being part of the brass band scene A) Yes B) No, please explain C) Only if it involves a vast quantity of cocktails.”
Whish; “I love it and and C, I love the cocktails afterwards (laughter).”
GM; “Alright mate, thanks a lot I’ve really enjoyed this.”
Whish; “Me too Geoff it’s been a lot of fun.”
GM; “Beautiful!”
